Hannah is the daughter of William Finch (1835-1912) and Elizabeth (nee Gaskill 1837-1873). Hannah was born May 1 1865 in Ince in Makerfield and the Lancs OPC has her baptised on Dec 11 1865 at All Saint’s parish Church In Wigan. However, the IGI has a Hannah Finch baptised Dec 11 1865 at St Catherine's, Wigan. So, what’s the truth in this and why would there be any discrepancy if any at all does exist. Perhaps someone can explain this for me?
I looked and looked for a marriage for Hannah and finally came away with the idea that this may have been one of the many Finch girls that never made it to adulthood and who died young. Starting from the known and working to the unknown is a standard operating procedure and I followed this in the case of Hannah.
We know that Hannah was born in 1865 and the next test is the 1871 census and here we find the main indication that Hannah did not make it when Hannah does not turn up with her siblings in the paper record. I have often watched those TV shows where modern people find their ancestors in the workhouse and they break down and cry there and then on TV. Well, I didn’t cry but I came close at crying for someone who was cut short before they could fulfil their potential.
In the 1871 census we can be fairly confident that we have the correct William and Elizabeth Finch. William is seen to have been born in Standish which is correct and in 1833 which is close to the true date of 1835. Elizabeth is said to be born in 1838 which is close to the correct date of 1837. It is in the presence of the correct children that we can conclude that this is the correct family and that Hannah is not there as we could reasonable expect her to be.
The 1871 census show the presence of Richard Finch aged 11, John Thomas aged 7 and their sister Jane, aged 3. However, there is no Hannah who seems absent. The IGI does not carry the death/burial date although the Lancs BMD does have a Hannah dying in 1865 and I am going to accept this entry as a real possibility of being ‘our’ Hannah Finch rather than someone totally unrelated. Hannah seems not to have made it. Just to be complete I also checked the 1881 census and Hannah isn’t there either.
There is no burial for Hannah in the Wigan Cemetery which has an excellent searchable database and I can only imagine that she was interred at Hindley or another place. Perhaps Saint Catherine’s had a cemetery and this served as the final resting place for Hannah.
Monday, August 30, 2010
Sunday, August 29, 2010
"John Finch"
There are many problems in researching Finch heritage in Standish and Wigan and the main problem is the sheer number of people with the same name in a certain time frame.
“John Finch” seems to be one of the more popular names in the early 19th Century and is found in both Wigan and Standish. There is a also a degree of frustration in that the IGI is not ‘foolproof’ and the Lancs OPC does not cover all time periods and for all areas although it is truly magnificent how many hours are continually given over by volunteers to this endeavour.
So, “John Finch” and the continual problem of which one we descend from. I had a look at the number of people with this name and wanted to try and list them in a 20 year period.
John Finch Sep 23 1790 Thomas Finch and Alice
John Finch Jan 29 1791 Robert Finch and Betty highton
John Finch 1792 Robert Finch and Alice
John Finch 1793 James Finch and Alice
John Finch 1796 Thos. Finch and Betty
John Finch 1798 Edwd. Finch and Alice
John Finch Mar 29 1804 William Finch and Jane Heswick
John Finch Apr 23 1813 Thomas Finch and Catherine
John Finch Feb 14 1820 William Finch and Ann
John Finch 1821 James Finch and Mary
John Finch 1823 Peter Finch and Ellen
“John Finch “ has a wide popularity and there is a doubtless the possibility for confusion as to identity when we conduct electronic searches. There is also the popularity of the mothers name “Alice” which is popular in the same way that “John” is popular.
It is evident that the Finch family was present in both Standish and Wigan and is a local name although William Finch and Jane Heswick are probably from Lancaster.
“John Finch” seems to be one of the more popular names in the early 19th Century and is found in both Wigan and Standish. There is a also a degree of frustration in that the IGI is not ‘foolproof’ and the Lancs OPC does not cover all time periods and for all areas although it is truly magnificent how many hours are continually given over by volunteers to this endeavour.
So, “John Finch” and the continual problem of which one we descend from. I had a look at the number of people with this name and wanted to try and list them in a 20 year period.
John Finch Sep 23 1790 Thomas Finch and Alice
John Finch Jan 29 1791 Robert Finch and Betty highton
John Finch 1792 Robert Finch and Alice
John Finch 1793 James Finch and Alice
John Finch 1796 Thos. Finch and Betty
John Finch 1798 Edwd. Finch and Alice
John Finch Mar 29 1804 William Finch and Jane Heswick
John Finch Apr 23 1813 Thomas Finch and Catherine
John Finch Feb 14 1820 William Finch and Ann
John Finch 1821 James Finch and Mary
John Finch 1823 Peter Finch and Ellen
“John Finch “ has a wide popularity and there is a doubtless the possibility for confusion as to identity when we conduct electronic searches. There is also the popularity of the mothers name “Alice” which is popular in the same way that “John” is popular.
It is evident that the Finch family was present in both Standish and Wigan and is a local name although William Finch and Jane Heswick are probably from Lancaster.
Saturday, August 28, 2010
Jane Fisher (1805-1871)
Richard Fisher and Betty Lawton married on October 30 1804 at All Saint’s Church in Wigan, Lancashire with Jane Fisher being their first child born in 1805 in Standish. Richard and Betty had other daughters although no sons seem to have been born to the couple. Esther Fisher was Christened on March 29 1807 again in Standish with Mary Fisher being christened January 24 1809 in Standish. Mary’s christening is variously given as January 24 in the IGI and January 29 1809 in the Lancashire OPC so this is a cautionary tale when it comes to assessing the evidence and looking at dates and circumstances. By the time that Mary was born the family lived in nearby Coppull and this indicates a degree of mobility for the parents. Richard Fisher is noted to be a weaver which is unremarkable for this geographical area and may have lead to the need to travel as contracts occurred.
Jane is a little elusive when it comes to her records which do not appear in the Lancs OPC for 1805.
Jane is seen to marry John Finch on July 25 1827 at Saint Wilfrid’s Church in Standish which would be normal for that period when many people adhered to the Established Church of England. Jane’s children followed quickly with Richard (1828), Enage (1830), James (1833), William (1835), Elizabeth (1838) and John (1842).
The couple are there in the 1841 census of Standish at Can Row with Richard, Enage, William, Betty and John.
Regrettably, her husband John seems to have been the subject of a court case shortly after the census in 1846 with John dying ( although aquited) in the same year.
Jane seems to have married quickly after the death of John. This time she married William Marsden on December 21 1846. This may have been a love match but we also anticipate that Jane’s wish to re-marry may have been as the result of a need to feed, house and cloth her children now that John Finch was gone.
The IGI shows Jane’s marriage to William being when she was 31 years old although this may hold either a mistake in the record taking or a miscalculation on Jane’s part when she gave her age. In any event William Marsden seems to have been younger than Jane and we can only speculate that it was entirely in Jane’s interests to have a fit and healthy younger husband who would provide for her existing children. Whereas John Finch has been a stonemason, William Marsden was a wheelwright and with a skilled occupation he seems to have been a reasonable ‘catch’ for this women with children. William does not seem to have brought children to the new relationship.
The most unusual point of this marriage is that it took place at the Church of Saint Lawrence in Chorley (OPC Lancs) although if we have any doubts about that this is the same Jane Finch (nee Fisher) then we can see that the father of the bride is Richard Fisher who is a weaver.
Again, if we have any doubts that we have the correct Jane Fisher then we only have to wait for the census of 1851 which shows that Jane Finch and her new husband William are at Wigan Road in Standish. Although Richard seems to have left the family we find that Jane still has with her Heneage, James, William, Elizabeth and John. If we rely on the census we miss the birth and premature death of Agnes Marsden in (1846-1847) although in the date of Agnes’s birth we may have a reason for the somewhat rapid marriage of Jane to William.
By the census of 1861 we find that there has been rapid changes in the household with most of the children having left the family home with James alone remaining with Jane and William. The last 10 years has doubtless been a busy time with departures and the outcomes for the children is a piece of research in itself. William seems no longer to be wheelwright and seems to be listed in a similar occupation as a joiner and carpenter.
However, by 1871 we have a complete change and we see that relying on snapshots at 10 yearly intervals really does mean that we miss out on all the events of the family. In 1871 James is now the head of the little family living at 32, High Street Standish. James is presumably caring for his mother and stepfather or at least is the major person in terms of income. In the period 1861-1871 James has been married and is now also a widower with children. Esther, Helen and John are all in the family home with William and Jane now listed as ‘Boarders’ with James as the ‘head’ of the family for the purposes of the census.
Regrettably, the census was probably taken just ahead of Jane’s own death in 1871. The whereabouts of Jane’s grave in currently unknown although this may be revealed by research.
By 1881, William Marsden is a boarder at 6 Scholes Lane in Standish with Langtree and a ‘joiner’.
The life of Jane Fisher who became a Finch and later a Marsden is probably little different from the lives of many other women who lived in the period. However, I am pleased to present her to you in this manner because I have seen her name for so many years as a possible ancestor to so many Finch relatives and it is good to see her ‘clothed’ in her context and with her events and circumstances all around her. I hope that people will have a look at Jane Fishers life and add to what can be known or deduced.
Jane is a little elusive when it comes to her records which do not appear in the Lancs OPC for 1805.
Jane is seen to marry John Finch on July 25 1827 at Saint Wilfrid’s Church in Standish which would be normal for that period when many people adhered to the Established Church of England. Jane’s children followed quickly with Richard (1828), Enage (1830), James (1833), William (1835), Elizabeth (1838) and John (1842).
The couple are there in the 1841 census of Standish at Can Row with Richard, Enage, William, Betty and John.
Regrettably, her husband John seems to have been the subject of a court case shortly after the census in 1846 with John dying ( although aquited) in the same year.
Jane seems to have married quickly after the death of John. This time she married William Marsden on December 21 1846. This may have been a love match but we also anticipate that Jane’s wish to re-marry may have been as the result of a need to feed, house and cloth her children now that John Finch was gone.
The IGI shows Jane’s marriage to William being when she was 31 years old although this may hold either a mistake in the record taking or a miscalculation on Jane’s part when she gave her age. In any event William Marsden seems to have been younger than Jane and we can only speculate that it was entirely in Jane’s interests to have a fit and healthy younger husband who would provide for her existing children. Whereas John Finch has been a stonemason, William Marsden was a wheelwright and with a skilled occupation he seems to have been a reasonable ‘catch’ for this women with children. William does not seem to have brought children to the new relationship.
The most unusual point of this marriage is that it took place at the Church of Saint Lawrence in Chorley (OPC Lancs) although if we have any doubts about that this is the same Jane Finch (nee Fisher) then we can see that the father of the bride is Richard Fisher who is a weaver.
Again, if we have any doubts that we have the correct Jane Fisher then we only have to wait for the census of 1851 which shows that Jane Finch and her new husband William are at Wigan Road in Standish. Although Richard seems to have left the family we find that Jane still has with her Heneage, James, William, Elizabeth and John. If we rely on the census we miss the birth and premature death of Agnes Marsden in (1846-1847) although in the date of Agnes’s birth we may have a reason for the somewhat rapid marriage of Jane to William.
By the census of 1861 we find that there has been rapid changes in the household with most of the children having left the family home with James alone remaining with Jane and William. The last 10 years has doubtless been a busy time with departures and the outcomes for the children is a piece of research in itself. William seems no longer to be wheelwright and seems to be listed in a similar occupation as a joiner and carpenter.
However, by 1871 we have a complete change and we see that relying on snapshots at 10 yearly intervals really does mean that we miss out on all the events of the family. In 1871 James is now the head of the little family living at 32, High Street Standish. James is presumably caring for his mother and stepfather or at least is the major person in terms of income. In the period 1861-1871 James has been married and is now also a widower with children. Esther, Helen and John are all in the family home with William and Jane now listed as ‘Boarders’ with James as the ‘head’ of the family for the purposes of the census.
Regrettably, the census was probably taken just ahead of Jane’s own death in 1871. The whereabouts of Jane’s grave in currently unknown although this may be revealed by research.
By 1881, William Marsden is a boarder at 6 Scholes Lane in Standish with Langtree and a ‘joiner’.
The life of Jane Fisher who became a Finch and later a Marsden is probably little different from the lives of many other women who lived in the period. However, I am pleased to present her to you in this manner because I have seen her name for so many years as a possible ancestor to so many Finch relatives and it is good to see her ‘clothed’ in her context and with her events and circumstances all around her. I hope that people will have a look at Jane Fishers life and add to what can be known or deduced.
Saturday, July 31, 2010
Nancy Jane Finch
Could anyone help in finding Nancy Jane Finch (b 1896) born in Wigan? I have used the Free BMD which has no further information. Nancy Jane is the daughter of Richard Finch (1860-1934) and Nancy Jane (nee Howarth 1859-1917).
Friday, July 30, 2010
Information supplied
Thank you for the links for the "National Railway Museum" and for "Railway Ancestors" added on the front page. I hope to explore over the coming weeks with relation to Richard Finch. Much appreciated. We may find records relating to Richard and his life and times and employment on the Railway.
Once again thank you for this!
Once again thank you for this!
Monday, July 26, 2010
Mary Finch (1900-1973)
I have been spending time recently (a lot of time) on the children of Richard Finch and for some of them this has at times been a little speculative although I have received some very useful information from a member of the wider family. My thanks for that!
The problem comes with the daughters of Richard Finch as we always have to find the correct husband for daughters and Finch can be a ‘popular’name in Wigan and Standish and not all people called “Finch” are related to this Finch family. I became a little obsessed with Mary Finch (b 1900) and what happened to her but when did she die?
I was puzzled by a Mary Finch in the Burnley cemetery buried March 1 1973 (A12655). and wondered if this could be the daughter of Richard and Nancy Jane (nee Howarth). The aged certainly seemed correct although it takes a little more than a ‘blunt’ age to ascribe parentage. There was a need to cross reference the occupant of the grave to the family to make a positive match but how to do that.
The grave number (A12655) seemed the best way to do that and thanks to the OPC project, I was able to look at the grave number for Mary Finch and cross reference that against other members of the family in Burnley. That seems to have done the trick because the other occupant is none other that Nancy Jane herself buried December 8 1917 in grave A12655. It seems that either other people had suggested- post mortem-that Mary may be buried with her own mother or Mary may have made a stipulation that she be buried with her own mother.
Is this attribution co-incidence? Well, yes it could be and I have to offer that as a possibility in the absence of documentary evidence and being at a distance but it is perhaps a little churlish to deny that the Mary Finch buried in 1973 is not the daughter of Nancy Jane. The idea of Mary being buried in the same grave as her mother seems right and proper and an idea that we should nurture rather than discount.
So, Mary Finch is accounted for and ‘gathered in’ and we know what happened to her and Mary and Nancy Jane Finch are buried alongside Rose Lilian Finch who died in 1920. The same is not true of Mary’s sister - Nancy Jane Finch – and we will have to work to find her resting place as she is not in the cemetery at Burnley.
The problem comes with the daughters of Richard Finch as we always have to find the correct husband for daughters and Finch can be a ‘popular’name in Wigan and Standish and not all people called “Finch” are related to this Finch family. I became a little obsessed with Mary Finch (b 1900) and what happened to her but when did she die?
I was puzzled by a Mary Finch in the Burnley cemetery buried March 1 1973 (A12655). and wondered if this could be the daughter of Richard and Nancy Jane (nee Howarth). The aged certainly seemed correct although it takes a little more than a ‘blunt’ age to ascribe parentage. There was a need to cross reference the occupant of the grave to the family to make a positive match but how to do that.
The grave number (A12655) seemed the best way to do that and thanks to the OPC project, I was able to look at the grave number for Mary Finch and cross reference that against other members of the family in Burnley. That seems to have done the trick because the other occupant is none other that Nancy Jane herself buried December 8 1917 in grave A12655. It seems that either other people had suggested- post mortem-that Mary may be buried with her own mother or Mary may have made a stipulation that she be buried with her own mother.
Is this attribution co-incidence? Well, yes it could be and I have to offer that as a possibility in the absence of documentary evidence and being at a distance but it is perhaps a little churlish to deny that the Mary Finch buried in 1973 is not the daughter of Nancy Jane. The idea of Mary being buried in the same grave as her mother seems right and proper and an idea that we should nurture rather than discount.
So, Mary Finch is accounted for and ‘gathered in’ and we know what happened to her and Mary and Nancy Jane Finch are buried alongside Rose Lilian Finch who died in 1920. The same is not true of Mary’s sister - Nancy Jane Finch – and we will have to work to find her resting place as she is not in the cemetery at Burnley.
William Finch (1894-1964)
26 Lower Water St
Deveneley
204024
The First World War records for William Finch are quite hard to find. The address above gives no indication that Lower Water Street is in fact in Burnley and is not in the fictitious town created in error. I disregarded this record for some weeks until I looked at this William Finch in "Deveneley" and found that it was correct.
The address at enlistment is given as 421, Warrington Road, Lower Ince, Wigan. However, Warrington Road is soon crossed out and replaced by Lower Water Street the home that saw the death of William's son Harold in 1917. The occupation of William Finch at enlistment is given as haulage hand and later as a motor driver. This designation indicates that at least the early part life William Finch had escaped the family tradition of being a coal miner although he would later go back to that occupation.
At enlistment William was 22 years 11 months old. However the more remarkable statistics come about when we start to see comments made about the physical state of William who was, by modern standards, a person of diminutive build. William's height is recorded at 5'2" which is, by modern standards, quite short. However the diminutive height is matched by a diminutive weight and William's weight is recorded as 122llb which makes him around 9 stones in all. The examining officer found that William's chest was 35 inches when expanded with a 3 inch range of expansion.A scar below the right and eye was present. In terms of physical state; this is recorded as "good" and William is seen to have brown hair, brown eyes and a dark complexion.
In terms of war record there is little to go on. The documents that are available are difficult to read in electronic form and may not be that revealing in a hard copy format. William is seen to have been awarded the British War Medal and see Victory Medal although this seems to have been fairly standard for most servicemen.
Despite a undistinguished war record, William was wounded March 29 1918 and appears to have been transferred to a hospital in Newcastle upon Tyne in England and it seems that he stayed there until June 2, 1918 when he was granted a one week furlough ending June 11 1918. We presume that he went home to his wife and family.
William was seen as being fit for duty to the "command depot" although not fit for "duty" or "employment" as the other options. This outcome indicates that William's injuries although perhaps not life threatening were certainly serious enough to warrant hospitalisation and being invalided out of the immediate battle zone and quite a protracted period of convalescence.
http://finchgenealogy.blogspot.com/
Deveneley
204024
The First World War records for William Finch are quite hard to find. The address above gives no indication that Lower Water Street is in fact in Burnley and is not in the fictitious town created in error. I disregarded this record for some weeks until I looked at this William Finch in "Deveneley" and found that it was correct.
The address at enlistment is given as 421, Warrington Road, Lower Ince, Wigan. However, Warrington Road is soon crossed out and replaced by Lower Water Street the home that saw the death of William's son Harold in 1917. The occupation of William Finch at enlistment is given as haulage hand and later as a motor driver. This designation indicates that at least the early part life William Finch had escaped the family tradition of being a coal miner although he would later go back to that occupation.
At enlistment William was 22 years 11 months old. However the more remarkable statistics come about when we start to see comments made about the physical state of William who was, by modern standards, a person of diminutive build. William's height is recorded at 5'2" which is, by modern standards, quite short. However the diminutive height is matched by a diminutive weight and William's weight is recorded as 122llb which makes him around 9 stones in all. The examining officer found that William's chest was 35 inches when expanded with a 3 inch range of expansion.A scar below the right and eye was present. In terms of physical state; this is recorded as "good" and William is seen to have brown hair, brown eyes and a dark complexion.
In terms of war record there is little to go on. The documents that are available are difficult to read in electronic form and may not be that revealing in a hard copy format. William is seen to have been awarded the British War Medal and see Victory Medal although this seems to have been fairly standard for most servicemen.
Despite a undistinguished war record, William was wounded March 29 1918 and appears to have been transferred to a hospital in Newcastle upon Tyne in England and it seems that he stayed there until June 2, 1918 when he was granted a one week furlough ending June 11 1918. We presume that he went home to his wife and family.
William was seen as being fit for duty to the "command depot" although not fit for "duty" or "employment" as the other options. This outcome indicates that William's injuries although perhaps not life threatening were certainly serious enough to warrant hospitalisation and being invalided out of the immediate battle zone and quite a protracted period of convalescence.
http://finchgenealogy.blogspot.com/
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)