Yesterday was a very rainy day and I wrote this after an hour or so of solid rain when the garden was sodden with rain water and the wind meant that it was too cold to be out………..
There are a few things that really annoy me. Cold calling, speculative e-mail shots and 'drip pricing' all really upset and irritate me. I also dislike emails that tell me that the Bank of this and that is sending me a lot of money if only I will give them my credit card details. Yes, you get them as well.
In terms of genealogy, one of the things that really annoys me are those websites whereby people claimed descent from this and that personality right back to Adam and Eve with very little evidence or even an attempt to claim ‘evidence’ for their claim. Whilst this sort of assertion may be truly mediaeval in origin and quite mediaeval in spirit it doesn't really push back the boundaries of credible genealogy. From reading my last blog you will understand that I been looking at the gateway ancestor and trying to find somebody that will take us back even a little and I have been giving this matter some thought. So, whilst I dislike ‘strange’ web sites that make bold and unsustainable claims, I also recognise that they can be fun.
I have speculated in an earlier blog about the possible connections with the Finch family in Standish and Wigan being linked with the Earls of Aylesbury. This is purely speculative on my part, with no evidence whatsoever and ‘just for fun’ as they say. For the readers of this blog I want to confirm that I am quite able to make a distinction between fact and fantasy. The idea that the Finch family with which I am connected is also part of the noble family of Finch is fun but my daily life does not rely on this possibility. My life will not be ruined if I am not part of the noble family and it will not change anything immeasurably in my life. My Finch tree starts in 1806 and anything before that is speculative.
Still, I decided to test out the possibility that 80% of the population of Western Europe can claim a link to the Emperor Charlemagne. Now, that seems a very strange statistic and one may wonder how 80% of Western Europe can claim descent from one person or from an Emperor. However, it seems to be generally accepted that Charlemagne is the progenitor of Western Europe and that he is the progenitor of 70% of Eastern Europe. I suppose the difference between the Eastern and Western parts of Europe used to be the problem of travel in previous ages. The idea that so many people descend from Charlemagne is on the one hand exciting and invigorating and also unifying. Isn't it magnificent that we will descend (or most of us descend) from one person even if that person is so long dead?
Some years ago I went to the great city of Aachen which is now in Western Germany and I went to the Church where Charlemagne's remains are to be found. Amidst the tourists, the crush of humanity and the splendour, I truly felt connected with Charlemagne in an historical sense. I am not making any claims about ‘spooky’ mystical connections here and certainly Charlemagne did not speak to me in a personal sense. If Charlemagne did speak to me would that speech have been in mediaeval German or would Charlemagne have by some amazing power learnt modern English? No, Charlemagne did not speak to me in any mystical sense but I did, nevertheless, feel connected with him as the father of western Europe. Charlemagne is one of those great figures who, although sometimes quite genocidal in nature, is also one of the great figures in European history. However, did 80% of Western Europe descend from him? I decided to give this one a go and see whether or not I could prove some sort of descent from Charlemagne. If 80% of the population of Europe descends from the Emperor, then there is a fair chance that I can show this to be the case for the Finch family of Standish and Wigan.
Strange and mystical genealogies on the internet abound and it is clear that when people copy and paste Standish based genealogies they often click the link on Ancestry.com that places Standish in Gloucestershire rather than Lancashire. It is evidence of a lack-lustre piece of research when that mistake is not noticed in the onward ‘copying’ of the link. Mistakes such as this often test the credulity of individuals and despite such a style of research, I decided to look at my ancestors in the 18th century and see which of them I could take back any further. Which of them would prove revealing to a ‘copy and paste’ and ‘just for fun’ way of doing things. Interesting?
I decided to set aside the normal rules of genealogy and behave like one of the mediaeval heralds who set about writing genealogies that pleased their political master rather than relied on proven records. In the desire to connect myself to Charlemagne I used the International Genealogical Index freely and also used it widely. I want to talk about this in some detail so that you understand how I tried to connect myself in the 21st century to my 34th generation ancestor. The International Genealogical Index is a wonderful tool and I have used it for some years. It has confirmed all sorts of suppositions and it has led to some wonderful openings being made into the past that have subsequently been cross examined or cross referenced by other sources. Certainly, the International Genealogical Index has become more of a tool in the last few years then it was when I started to research my family tree. To find Charlemagne, I had to use the International Genealogical Index a little more freely, widely and with a little less respect.
I started by testing out any of the ancestors. How many of them could I take back a little further? I found that there was one particular line 'Smith' that was more yielding to research than I had imagined. Using the International Genealogical Index I was able to look at the marriage of individuals and then to go back 20 years or so to look to their birth and so on and so forth. Using this rather free method I was able to find a reasonable line. I wasn't completely cavalier in my attitude to this research and I looked for multiple people of the same name in a relatively short time period . If there were several men by the name of ‘John’ then I decided it was impossible to make a determination of which person of this name was the true ancestor and I set aside the project . However, for 'Smith' in Wigan I found that there were several wonderful people with no other similar names in the same time period. Equally, I could not believe my luck when I found that at one period of time a family actually married into a Finch line for a few generations before that, again, became untraceable in the International Genealogical Index.
The gateway ancestor finally emerged in the name 'Prescott' and I suspect that for many in the North-West this name is particularly useful as a gateway ancestor as it leads the family back into the line that is ‘Standish’ and Standish Hall. Well, when I found that I had managed to break my way through the gateway and found the noble family of Standish I became quite excited. Rather than my usual selection of ‘real people’, I was beginning to find people who were not so much members off the local workforce as members of the local aristocracy. There are people by the name of ‘Molineux’ etc and that is quite exciting in itself. ‘Beaumont’ is always exciting when found in a family tree as is ‘De Clare’. In effect, I have managed to push back to a point where, instead of family trees, we had national history. Eventually I came across an illegitimate link to Henry Plantagenet, King of England. With royalty one always finds a descent to Charlemagne and sure enough we can rely not so much upon this one Plantagenet but on the other aristocracy to find links to Charlemagne.
What does this tell us about genealogy on the Internet? Well, genealogy on the Internet is enormous fun and passes many a pleasant hour when it is raining outside and we cannot go out. Genealogy on the Internet is solidly entertaining and it can be similarly speculative. Sure, the International Genealogical Index had evidenced and witnessed all of the assertions, or assumptions, that I made but at any one spot, at any one juncture and at any one point the progress to the past could be faulty and in error. In effect, this great long and apparently unbroken golden line to the past could be a mistake. Don't misunderstand me, I'd love the idea that the Finch family in Wigan descends, however remotely, from the Emperor Charlemagne. That we descend from Henry Plantagenet is truly exciting. But that it might also be a mistake is also amazingly apparent.
Monday, October 25, 2010
Wednesday, October 20, 2010
A progress report of sorts
I have been researching my family tree for some. When I first started there was no such thing as the internet and I originally had to write letters to people in the hope that they would respond favourably. I had many responses from the Wigan and Burnley area, some were positive and some were not and some were interested and some more disheartening. Most of all they had a weariness about them because at that time people were just beginning to become interested in trees and genealogy as a whole. I think many local vicars were at the point where they were transferring the records that they held to the local county archive service. I think many of the local clergy were quite delighted to rid themselves of these records and the contact they had from people like me. Some letters from local clergyman were lacking in Christian charity whilst some were quite delighted that someone had actually written to them in the first place. One took one's chances and wrote. I was reminded of the idea of casting one's bread upon the water.
Of course, there was always the possibility that one could visit Wigan and Burnley. However, it was such a long way to go and even when I got there I wasn't sure that I would know what to look for or where to go as the starting point. So, I started to research in the paper record and started to ask for certificates. Births, marriages and deaths started to flow into the house. At that time the price of certificates was, by modern standards, quite cheap. Although to a youngish person starting out in life, the cost of endless certificates became daunting. To say the least, life also got in the way and a great many things happened as a great many things happen to everyone else. Interest in genealogy and family history ebbed and flowed and sometimes 'things' were forgotten only to be resurrected at a later time when life had settled down and the past became more pressing than the present. The certificates would be brought out and analysed and thought about and examined before being brought back in the box in which I retained them. This box was carried dutifully from house to house as I moved from one home to the next as part of my job. The ancestors stayed with me in the form of these certificates and at some point I knew that I would put it all together and make some sort of unity out of all the little pieces of information and all the little bits of rubbish that I had collected. This makes true the idea of 'never throw anything away'. I should never have thrown away some of the things that I had to throw away but in various house moves little pieces of paper became lost and detached and discarded. These many little pieces of information I regret losing because now when I do have time to sit down and resurrect the whole story they are a gap that cannot be filled.
Needless to say, new pieces of information had been found and I rejoice at the ability of the Internet to provide new information as archives go online, people become more interactive and information is out there. Like pebbles laid out on the beach, information about the ancestors becomes more and more accessible. We have cousins in Australia and the United States who are delighted to find their ancestors. Perhaps more than people in the United Kingdom, Americans and Australians have a greater interest in their roots and heritage and I can understand that. There is perhaps also a time in peoples lives when roots become more important and it seems significant that many genealogist and family history experts are older people. I suppose they had the time to dedicate to such a time consuming passion and the determination to look at a screen in the hope that something useful will pop out. Older people do have the time, although they also have lives and retirements which are to be lived and enjoyed. Despite this I think that genealogy and family history is something that can be enjoyed by everyone and it speaks to us of our roots and heritage. Genealogy also speaks to us of our past but also it says something about our future. Where others have been; so too may we go in the future.
The Finch family history is in many ways a little bit of a roller coaster. I have certainly in some manner of speaking been disappointed that I have not yet found a British Duke in the ancestors. I never really expected to find a British Duke (or any Duke for that matter). However, all of the genealogy programme's lead us to believe in some sort of gateway ancestor that will lead us into that possible nobility and aristocracy and sometimes I think we are all a little disappointed not to find that link. The Finch family has been a disappointment in this matter although the disappointment is perhaps, in reality, of my own making rather than that created by the ancestors who lived their own lives and made their mark on their society in their own way and in their own time. My disappointment is nothing in comparison to the daily achievements they made in their own lives. They got up in the morning among often grinding poverty and they went to work in often terrible conditions before returning home to live the lives to which they had no alternative. Our ancestors were remarkable creatures and my own little disappointments at not finding 'nobility' are quickly changed to a strange sort of delight that they, as a group, had survived. So, I do not yet have the gateway ancestor and I cannot claim to be part of any great noble house although I do hope and I do look out for such an ancestor and if anyone knows of such then please speak up I am only too willing to hear it.
In reality, like many other families, the Finch family is often clothed in obscurity and it does not pop-out of the historical record easily. We are coalminers and we are factory workers. The history of the Finch family and those who married into the family is written in carbon. Our lives are sometimes brief and later we rest in the Lower Ince Cemetery before a branch of the family transferred over to Burnley. So far I have not come across anybody that is famous or important or noteworthy although increasingly that has a sort of reassurance to it. Although we have no one of historical importance in our family it also means that neither do we have generals who have been responsible for the mass murder of their fellow citizens and neither do we have religious zealots who lead the Church of England (other denominations also exist!) from time to time. If members of the Finch family made mistakes then they made mistakes were themselves and their own family rather than whole communities. There is something a little comforting in that. It is better to be responsible for one's own mistakes rather than to find them writ large upon the pages of history. Still, it would be nice to find one of 'us' that had made it.
Ancestry.com has made the whole process a lot easier. We are able to share information and I know that over the past few months I have had some wonderful contacts from family members around the globe who have contacted me with their own contributions towards the tree that you can see. It is wonderful to be able to work collaboratively in such an intensive manner towards a common goal. The Finch family has moved on as a result of such collaborative endeavour and I look forward to further work in this area using Ancestry.com. The weblog has also proved very useful in sharing information and raising the profile of the Finch family that originates in Standish and Wigan. I hope that using the website 'Find a Grave' will, similarly, raise the profile of the family and encourage others to add their own contribution to build up our knowledge family members around the world. Raising the profile on the Internet may mean that we become more noticeable and others start to contribute to our knowledge and understanding of this ancient Lancastrian family.
So, research which began in the past continues and picks up pace over time. Internet research has built on pre-existing paper documentation gathered so many years earlier and is augmented by contemporary contributions. Knowledge about the Finch family, its origins and contribution to society develops and little historical questions are resolved. In terms of a progress report I think that the past year has been extremely important, rewarding and interesting and I look forward in continuing this research in collaboration with others.
Of course, there was always the possibility that one could visit Wigan and Burnley. However, it was such a long way to go and even when I got there I wasn't sure that I would know what to look for or where to go as the starting point. So, I started to research in the paper record and started to ask for certificates. Births, marriages and deaths started to flow into the house. At that time the price of certificates was, by modern standards, quite cheap. Although to a youngish person starting out in life, the cost of endless certificates became daunting. To say the least, life also got in the way and a great many things happened as a great many things happen to everyone else. Interest in genealogy and family history ebbed and flowed and sometimes 'things' were forgotten only to be resurrected at a later time when life had settled down and the past became more pressing than the present. The certificates would be brought out and analysed and thought about and examined before being brought back in the box in which I retained them. This box was carried dutifully from house to house as I moved from one home to the next as part of my job. The ancestors stayed with me in the form of these certificates and at some point I knew that I would put it all together and make some sort of unity out of all the little pieces of information and all the little bits of rubbish that I had collected. This makes true the idea of 'never throw anything away'. I should never have thrown away some of the things that I had to throw away but in various house moves little pieces of paper became lost and detached and discarded. These many little pieces of information I regret losing because now when I do have time to sit down and resurrect the whole story they are a gap that cannot be filled.
Needless to say, new pieces of information had been found and I rejoice at the ability of the Internet to provide new information as archives go online, people become more interactive and information is out there. Like pebbles laid out on the beach, information about the ancestors becomes more and more accessible. We have cousins in Australia and the United States who are delighted to find their ancestors. Perhaps more than people in the United Kingdom, Americans and Australians have a greater interest in their roots and heritage and I can understand that. There is perhaps also a time in peoples lives when roots become more important and it seems significant that many genealogist and family history experts are older people. I suppose they had the time to dedicate to such a time consuming passion and the determination to look at a screen in the hope that something useful will pop out. Older people do have the time, although they also have lives and retirements which are to be lived and enjoyed. Despite this I think that genealogy and family history is something that can be enjoyed by everyone and it speaks to us of our roots and heritage. Genealogy also speaks to us of our past but also it says something about our future. Where others have been; so too may we go in the future.
The Finch family history is in many ways a little bit of a roller coaster. I have certainly in some manner of speaking been disappointed that I have not yet found a British Duke in the ancestors. I never really expected to find a British Duke (or any Duke for that matter). However, all of the genealogy programme's lead us to believe in some sort of gateway ancestor that will lead us into that possible nobility and aristocracy and sometimes I think we are all a little disappointed not to find that link. The Finch family has been a disappointment in this matter although the disappointment is perhaps, in reality, of my own making rather than that created by the ancestors who lived their own lives and made their mark on their society in their own way and in their own time. My disappointment is nothing in comparison to the daily achievements they made in their own lives. They got up in the morning among often grinding poverty and they went to work in often terrible conditions before returning home to live the lives to which they had no alternative. Our ancestors were remarkable creatures and my own little disappointments at not finding 'nobility' are quickly changed to a strange sort of delight that they, as a group, had survived. So, I do not yet have the gateway ancestor and I cannot claim to be part of any great noble house although I do hope and I do look out for such an ancestor and if anyone knows of such then please speak up I am only too willing to hear it.
In reality, like many other families, the Finch family is often clothed in obscurity and it does not pop-out of the historical record easily. We are coalminers and we are factory workers. The history of the Finch family and those who married into the family is written in carbon. Our lives are sometimes brief and later we rest in the Lower Ince Cemetery before a branch of the family transferred over to Burnley. So far I have not come across anybody that is famous or important or noteworthy although increasingly that has a sort of reassurance to it. Although we have no one of historical importance in our family it also means that neither do we have generals who have been responsible for the mass murder of their fellow citizens and neither do we have religious zealots who lead the Church of England (other denominations also exist!) from time to time. If members of the Finch family made mistakes then they made mistakes were themselves and their own family rather than whole communities. There is something a little comforting in that. It is better to be responsible for one's own mistakes rather than to find them writ large upon the pages of history. Still, it would be nice to find one of 'us' that had made it.
Ancestry.com has made the whole process a lot easier. We are able to share information and I know that over the past few months I have had some wonderful contacts from family members around the globe who have contacted me with their own contributions towards the tree that you can see. It is wonderful to be able to work collaboratively in such an intensive manner towards a common goal. The Finch family has moved on as a result of such collaborative endeavour and I look forward to further work in this area using Ancestry.com. The weblog has also proved very useful in sharing information and raising the profile of the Finch family that originates in Standish and Wigan. I hope that using the website 'Find a Grave' will, similarly, raise the profile of the family and encourage others to add their own contribution to build up our knowledge family members around the world. Raising the profile on the Internet may mean that we become more noticeable and others start to contribute to our knowledge and understanding of this ancient Lancastrian family.
So, research which began in the past continues and picks up pace over time. Internet research has built on pre-existing paper documentation gathered so many years earlier and is augmented by contemporary contributions. Knowledge about the Finch family, its origins and contribution to society develops and little historical questions are resolved. In terms of a progress report I think that the past year has been extremely important, rewarding and interesting and I look forward in continuing this research in collaboration with others.
Monday, October 18, 2010
Israel Finch (1885-1891)
Israel is an interesting Biblical name and this son of Richard Finch is in fact named after a maternal grandfather (Israel Howarth) who at that time was an ‘in-mate’ of a psychiatric hospital at Whittingham before Israel Howarth's own death in 1894.
The idea of naming a son after a grandfather is understandable. However, Israel Finch was named after a person who was both a detained patient and a person given to violent outbursts as part of his psychiatric condition. Additionally, Israel was a child named after a grandfather who had been part of a criminal trial in 1875 of people involved in a violent assault. Although, Israel Howarth was not convicted he was associated with those who were violent.
Despite such issues, Nancy Jane and Richard still thought positively enough of Israel Howarth to name their first son after his grandfather.
However, this particular Israel died in 1891 and we can only contemplate the grief of the parents even at a time when children died early with greater frequency. Israel was buried in a shared grave (Grave No. L 580) at the Lower Ince Cemetery. A birth and death certificate would be interesting for Israel although this is a job for another day as they say as this form of intensive family history can become expensive.
The question could be: why was Israel buried into a public grave when Richard was clearly doing so well for himself? Was it the case that Richard was an unemotional man as indicated by my relative in 1982 or was it something else?
Israel is not just a simple and abstract record in the family history. Israel has individuality as a child and as a distant cousin and despite this individuality as a person, Richard and Nancy were going bury Israel and other children anonymously in a public grave. Is this some sort of commentary on how Victorians viewed death, bereavement and children or is it some peculiar feature of the relationship of Richard and Nancy Jane? Were the couple just financially conservative or was it that they were at the start of becoming financially secure and resented paying the money to purchase a private grave for such a young child?
Although their first born son is buried in Wigan in a public grave; Richard and Nancy Jane are later re-united into a private grave in Burnley to be still later joined by a daughter,Mary Finch, and there is something uncomfortable in this arrangement. Did Richard remember his son Israel when he died in far away Gloucestershire so may years later?
I’m trying not to become mawkish about the separation of Israel from his parents in death and burial but we may consider Richard and Nancy Jane's actions as being quite unemotional although this lack of emotion fits in with family comments about Richard in particular.
Israel is interesting both in his death and the circumstances of his burial. Symbolically, Israel stands for and represents Victorian attitudes to death and burial and Israel also tells us something about Richard and Nancy Jane.
See this link for a comment on English burials
Public Versus Private graves
The idea of naming a son after a grandfather is understandable. However, Israel Finch was named after a person who was both a detained patient and a person given to violent outbursts as part of his psychiatric condition. Additionally, Israel was a child named after a grandfather who had been part of a criminal trial in 1875 of people involved in a violent assault. Although, Israel Howarth was not convicted he was associated with those who were violent.
Despite such issues, Nancy Jane and Richard still thought positively enough of Israel Howarth to name their first son after his grandfather.
However, this particular Israel died in 1891 and we can only contemplate the grief of the parents even at a time when children died early with greater frequency. Israel was buried in a shared grave (Grave No. L 580) at the Lower Ince Cemetery. A birth and death certificate would be interesting for Israel although this is a job for another day as they say as this form of intensive family history can become expensive.
The question could be: why was Israel buried into a public grave when Richard was clearly doing so well for himself? Was it the case that Richard was an unemotional man as indicated by my relative in 1982 or was it something else?
Israel is not just a simple and abstract record in the family history. Israel has individuality as a child and as a distant cousin and despite this individuality as a person, Richard and Nancy were going bury Israel and other children anonymously in a public grave. Is this some sort of commentary on how Victorians viewed death, bereavement and children or is it some peculiar feature of the relationship of Richard and Nancy Jane? Were the couple just financially conservative or was it that they were at the start of becoming financially secure and resented paying the money to purchase a private grave for such a young child?
Although their first born son is buried in Wigan in a public grave; Richard and Nancy Jane are later re-united into a private grave in Burnley to be still later joined by a daughter,Mary Finch, and there is something uncomfortable in this arrangement. Did Richard remember his son Israel when he died in far away Gloucestershire so may years later?
I’m trying not to become mawkish about the separation of Israel from his parents in death and burial but we may consider Richard and Nancy Jane's actions as being quite unemotional although this lack of emotion fits in with family comments about Richard in particular.
Israel is interesting both in his death and the circumstances of his burial. Symbolically, Israel stands for and represents Victorian attitudes to death and burial and Israel also tells us something about Richard and Nancy Jane.
See this link for a comment on English burials
Public Versus Private graves
Sunday, October 17, 2010
Ellen Finch
The last few days have been a sort of emotional roller coaster in research relating to Richard Finch and has created more questions about Ellen Finch. Just who was she, who did she originally marry and what was her birth name? Why wasn't she a beneficiary of Richard's will?
I received a copy of Richard's will after waiting for a month or so and that was a big event after all the waiting. That Richard didn't leave anything for 'the second wife', was hard enough to understand. That he didn't mention his second set of children is quite amazing. However, we have to remember that the eldest son Richard was possibly involved and my money rests on Richard being his father's favourite and being the person who decided on what happened after the death of his father. How much say did Ellen have over the bequests of her husband and did the law even allow Ellen to claim her husbands estate? Was she left with nothing or was it that she didn't need anything? Even so, there is an atmosphere of 'disloyalty' created by Richard towards Ellen. Despie this the late second marriage of Richard to Ellen (who had a previous marriage) may have seen Ellen as a woman left wealthy or at least comfortable.
The idea of Richard (Jr) being a significant player with influence rests on the limited material available. We can see that Richard (Jr) was an engine driver and that he followed in his father's footsteps. Richard is the first mentioned in the will and he lives in Burnley as opposed to another son, William, who moves away. I suspect that Richard (Jr) argued for the burial of his father 'up-North', but that is pure conjecture and the stuff of TV drama. Perhaps a widowed Ellen felt unable to argue with Richard's own son in such matters?
Ellen Finch is someone that we need to pay greater attention to as we try to peel away the layers of history and gain some idea of the past.
I received a copy of Richard's will after waiting for a month or so and that was a big event after all the waiting. That Richard didn't leave anything for 'the second wife', was hard enough to understand. That he didn't mention his second set of children is quite amazing. However, we have to remember that the eldest son Richard was possibly involved and my money rests on Richard being his father's favourite and being the person who decided on what happened after the death of his father. How much say did Ellen have over the bequests of her husband and did the law even allow Ellen to claim her husbands estate? Was she left with nothing or was it that she didn't need anything? Even so, there is an atmosphere of 'disloyalty' created by Richard towards Ellen. Despie this the late second marriage of Richard to Ellen (who had a previous marriage) may have seen Ellen as a woman left wealthy or at least comfortable.
The idea of Richard (Jr) being a significant player with influence rests on the limited material available. We can see that Richard (Jr) was an engine driver and that he followed in his father's footsteps. Richard is the first mentioned in the will and he lives in Burnley as opposed to another son, William, who moves away. I suspect that Richard (Jr) argued for the burial of his father 'up-North', but that is pure conjecture and the stuff of TV drama. Perhaps a widowed Ellen felt unable to argue with Richard's own son in such matters?
Ellen Finch is someone that we need to pay greater attention to as we try to peel away the layers of history and gain some idea of the past.
Saturday, October 16, 2010
Richard Finch. Burial 20th September 1934
I have been looking for the burial of Richard Finch for the past year and at one point believed that he was buried in Gloucestershire. However, I once again looked at the Lancashire On line parish clerk project and find that Richard is actually buried in Burnley.
Richard was, in fact, buried on 20th Sep 1934 at the Burnley Cemetery. It is the same Richard because the address is given as "Rosegrove Ableton La. Severn Beach Bristol".
Startlingly, Richard is buried in grave A12655 and that means that Richard is buried in the same grave as his first wife. Imagine: Richard is buried in the same grave as his first wife when he died whilst married to the second wife Ellen.
That Richard died without apparently leaving anything to Ellen or the children is interesting but Richard is buried with Nancy Jane who died in 1917. There is clearly a story to be told here and that is probably a real humdinger!
I am so relieved to find Richard's burial. It is like finding an old friend and it is a sort of closure.
Gender: M
Register: Burials 1933 - 1940, Page 67, Entry 106028
Source: Original Registers Book 14
Richard was, in fact, buried on 20th Sep 1934 at the Burnley Cemetery. It is the same Richard because the address is given as "Rosegrove Ableton La. Severn Beach Bristol".
Startlingly, Richard is buried in grave A12655 and that means that Richard is buried in the same grave as his first wife. Imagine: Richard is buried in the same grave as his first wife when he died whilst married to the second wife Ellen.
That Richard died without apparently leaving anything to Ellen or the children is interesting but Richard is buried with Nancy Jane who died in 1917. There is clearly a story to be told here and that is probably a real humdinger!
I am so relieved to find Richard's burial. It is like finding an old friend and it is a sort of closure.
Gender: M
Register: Burials 1933 - 1940, Page 67, Entry 106028
Source: Original Registers Book 14
Elizabeth Gill (nee Finch) 1883-1969
I have to acknowledge from the beginning that this Elizabeth Finch, daughter of Richard, is largely unknown to me as the person I spoke to in 1982 had never met her and relied on hearsay and family accounts.
The date of death is conjectural and may be incorrect although it feels 'right' and sits in the usual time frame for someone born in 1883.
My source remembered that this Elizabeth married an Amos Gill and the name proved to be correct when I checked it out many years later. This is, again, the power of family accounts of long distant family members. We sometimes doubt what we are told although many the accounts given to me by family members have proved to be correct when checked out.
I remember that Elizabeth Finch moved with her husband to Edmonton near London and that Amos was a wealthy man. This was important to the teller of the story who was proud that at least one Finch woman had married well. I know no more of this member of the family but I would like to know more.
The date of death is conjectural and may be incorrect although it feels 'right' and sits in the usual time frame for someone born in 1883.
My source remembered that this Elizabeth married an Amos Gill and the name proved to be correct when I checked it out many years later. This is, again, the power of family accounts of long distant family members. We sometimes doubt what we are told although many the accounts given to me by family members have proved to be correct when checked out.
I remember that Elizabeth Finch moved with her husband to Edmonton near London and that Amos was a wealthy man. This was important to the teller of the story who was proud that at least one Finch woman had married well. I know no more of this member of the family but I would like to know more.
"Rosegrove"
The address/house name for Richard Finch in Severn Beach seems to be "Rosegrove" and situated at Ableton Lane. Now that name seems to have some meaning for Richard as it is also the name of the railway station in Burnley.
It is probably the case that Richard worked from this Burnley station in his career as an engine driver and we start to become closer to the real Richard Finch as he moves from the hard industrial North-West to leafy Gloucestershire. We also start to see Richard as a man 'soaked through' with the railway even to the point of naming his house after a railway station even when he was so geographically far away. Perhaps Richard was similar to the archityple British Imperial explorer of the period in India who called his hill-top bungalow after a distant town in Surrey. Perhaps at the end of our days we all hark back to our earlier days and life times when we were happy and fulfilled.
I find myself asking why Richard was so associated with Burnley when he was born in Standish and was probably well known to Wigan. Richard, clearly, made a decision to move away from Wigan and an ealier posting details his house ownership in both towns. However, despite a point when he owned houses in both towns; Richard moved on.
The death of his wife in Burnley in 1917 allowed Richard to marry again and start his new family in the Bristol area. We don't yet know when Richard moved to Severn Beach although we can be certain that it was post 1920. I'm working under the hypothesis that Richard bought a new property in the new town of Severn Beach and moved there with Ellen. Richard, who had been surrounded by poverty and family members being incarcerated in the workhouse or psychiatric institutions, possibly found security for the first time.
The great surprise is that Richard does not, in his will, apparently leave monies for his wife or second family. Richard remembers some, if not all, of his older children living in Burnley. He does not remember William Finch in the will although he remembers Mary Finch a person that he is said to have (at some points) disliked. The reasons for this choice may be lost in time and never to be known.
"Rosegrove" is a place that leaves a lot of questions unanswered in relation to Richard whilst answering others and the greatest puzzle left is the last resting place. Where is Richard buried? Richard does not appear to be buried in Burnley next to his first wife although this would be very unusual especially for Ellen Finch. Richard is not buried in the parish in which he died and this is unusual.
"Rosegrove" is interesting in that it tells us something about Richard and humanises him to some extent.
It is probably the case that Richard worked from this Burnley station in his career as an engine driver and we start to become closer to the real Richard Finch as he moves from the hard industrial North-West to leafy Gloucestershire. We also start to see Richard as a man 'soaked through' with the railway even to the point of naming his house after a railway station even when he was so geographically far away. Perhaps Richard was similar to the archityple British Imperial explorer of the period in India who called his hill-top bungalow after a distant town in Surrey. Perhaps at the end of our days we all hark back to our earlier days and life times when we were happy and fulfilled.
I find myself asking why Richard was so associated with Burnley when he was born in Standish and was probably well known to Wigan. Richard, clearly, made a decision to move away from Wigan and an ealier posting details his house ownership in both towns. However, despite a point when he owned houses in both towns; Richard moved on.
The death of his wife in Burnley in 1917 allowed Richard to marry again and start his new family in the Bristol area. We don't yet know when Richard moved to Severn Beach although we can be certain that it was post 1920. I'm working under the hypothesis that Richard bought a new property in the new town of Severn Beach and moved there with Ellen. Richard, who had been surrounded by poverty and family members being incarcerated in the workhouse or psychiatric institutions, possibly found security for the first time.
The great surprise is that Richard does not, in his will, apparently leave monies for his wife or second family. Richard remembers some, if not all, of his older children living in Burnley. He does not remember William Finch in the will although he remembers Mary Finch a person that he is said to have (at some points) disliked. The reasons for this choice may be lost in time and never to be known.
"Rosegrove" is a place that leaves a lot of questions unanswered in relation to Richard whilst answering others and the greatest puzzle left is the last resting place. Where is Richard buried? Richard does not appear to be buried in Burnley next to his first wife although this would be very unusual especially for Ellen Finch. Richard is not buried in the parish in which he died and this is unusual.
"Rosegrove" is interesting in that it tells us something about Richard and humanises him to some extent.
Last Will. Richard Finch.
Well, here it is just when I thought it would never arrive. We have the last will and testament of Richard Finch
This is the last will and testament of me
Richard Finch of Rosegrove, Ableton Lane, Severn Beach in the County of Gloucestershire. Retired Engine Driver.
I hereby revoke all former testamentary dispositions made by me and declare this to be my last will and testament.
I appoint my wife Ellen Finch and my son Richard Finch to be my executors and trustees of this my will.
I give devise and bequeath £256 war savings certificates, £115 my money in the Burnley Building Society, £15 insurance money in Brittanic Insurance Company payable at my death, about £34 to become due at my death from the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company, about £44 to come in shortly from war savings certificates and also any other monies or personal estate I may have due to me and all my other estate to be equally divided amongst my three children Richard Finch, Isabella Parker and Mary Finch
In witness wherof I have hereunto set my hand this 3rd day of September 1934 One thousand nine hundred and thirty four.
Signed : Richard Finch
Witnessed: Wm Murphy (clerk to the solicitors)
Witnessed: John Denver(s/p?
Saint Kilda
Ableton Lane
Severn Beach Railway Inspector
The hand written will is written on two small pieces of paper. It is written in one hand and then signed by Richard Finch whose hand appears a little faint and shakey. I would anticipate that Richard was a man in poor health. That he is a retired engine driver may indicate that he has been in poor health for some time.
This is the last will and testament of me
Richard Finch of Rosegrove, Ableton Lane, Severn Beach in the County of Gloucestershire. Retired Engine Driver.
I hereby revoke all former testamentary dispositions made by me and declare this to be my last will and testament.
I appoint my wife Ellen Finch and my son Richard Finch to be my executors and trustees of this my will.
I give devise and bequeath £256 war savings certificates, £115 my money in the Burnley Building Society, £15 insurance money in Brittanic Insurance Company payable at my death, about £34 to become due at my death from the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company, about £44 to come in shortly from war savings certificates and also any other monies or personal estate I may have due to me and all my other estate to be equally divided amongst my three children Richard Finch, Isabella Parker and Mary Finch
In witness wherof I have hereunto set my hand this 3rd day of September 1934 One thousand nine hundred and thirty four.
Signed : Richard Finch
Witnessed: Wm Murphy (clerk to the solicitors)
Witnessed: John Denver(s/p?
Saint Kilda
Ableton Lane
Severn Beach Railway Inspector
The hand written will is written on two small pieces of paper. It is written in one hand and then signed by Richard Finch whose hand appears a little faint and shakey. I would anticipate that Richard was a man in poor health. That he is a retired engine driver may indicate that he has been in poor health for some time.
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